SethGecko13 ([info]sethgecko13) wrote,
@ 2008-12-02 11:27:00
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Entry tags:spud, wgrd

"Spud" and "Jesus was a Democrat"

Local DJ and part-time conservative mouthpiece ‘Spud’ weighed in with another neoconservative missive on rock station WGRD’s website, attacking Everclear for writing and giving away the song “Jesus was a Democrat” on their website. Unfortunately for him, he delves into scriptural interpretation – an area he’s ill-equipped to opine about in an informed fashion:

“I don’t recall Jesus ever recommending that the Roman Empire confiscate the people’s money by force and then pass it out to people who might not deserve it to buy their votes. […] Jesus recommended giving directly to the poor, of your own free will, out of your own pocket, and out of the kindness of your heart which is called ‘charity,’ not welfare.”

Does that mean that tithing doesn’t count as charitable giving?

Ignoring the loaded, straw-man interpretation of liberal policy and the realities of poverty – there are plenty of places in the bible where has been reasonably interpreted by many to say that Jesus supported wealth redistribution and opposed private enterprise and the accumulation of wealth. Perhaps the most famous is Mark 10:25:

“It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

There are many references in scripture that talk about the necessity of governments (not just individuals) to look out for the poor (in line with Matthew 25): Ezekiel 16:49-50, Zechariah 7:8-14, Isaiah 10:1-5, Micah 3:1-4, etc. Some Christians might cite 2 Thessalonians and claim that those who don’t work don’t get to eat, but this is predicated on the empirically-false notion conservatives have (Spud is a good example) that there are a sizeable proportion (if not a majority) of people on welfare who are there solely because they’re lazy and refuse to work, and not because they legitimately need help. As I noted, this is empirically false for a variety of reasons.

The best rebuttal is that the vast majority of people receiving welfare assistance are children (either through the education system, or through households that have dependant children) – so unless Spud is advocating we return to the 18th century and drop our child labor standards, the argument is misguided. Here’s a great document from the APA that dispels a lot of myths about welfare. One of the best statistics it cites is that welfare spending is less than one percent of the budget; one wonders what Jesus might think about that given that we spend (conservatively) 20 percent of our budget on national defense. I also wonder if Spud would begrudge “Joe the Plumber” the welfare assistance his family was on (which he credits for his ascention to the middle class)…

Jesus absolutely and unambiguously condemned usury (IE the entire mechanics of our private financial sector) which shoots a giant hole in the argument that Jesus was a right-wing republican given how heavily-invested the right is in deregulated capitalism (Exodus 22:25-27, Leviticus 25:35-37, Deuteronomy 23:19,20, Nehemiah 5:10,11, Psalm 15:5, Proverbs 28:8, Isaiah 24:1-3, Jeremiah 15:10, Ezekiel 18:7-9, Ezekiel 18:13, Ezekiel 18:17, Ezekiel 22:12, Matthew 25:14-29, Luke 19:11-26, etc., etc., etc.).

Another claim made by Spud is: “And conservative church-goers give more money to charity annually than any group in America by far, including filthy-rich liberal rockstars.”

He could be referring to this ABC News Report done by John Stossel that leaves a whole lot to be desired in its methodology. It ignores myriad complex variables and cherry-picks two sample cities: Sioux Falls (conservative) to San Francisco (liberal). It also reduces charity to solely private contributions (and ignores volunteerism, or any charitable involvement in terms of the political scene and advocating for the poor through the organs of government).

Here, Spud repeats the fallacy that liberals aren’t (or can’t be) Christians (in spite of railing against Everclear for purporting to tell Christians what their beliefs can and cannot be): “And even I am sick and tired of smug, ill-informed liberals telling Christians what their religion is all about. How bigoted. How insensitive, especially when the smug little point they’re trying to make is just flat-out, laughably-wrong.”

Speaking of flat-out, laughably-wrong – Spud then attacks Art Alexakis (ignoring the fact that Alexakis is a Christian and wrote the song specifically in response to being told by conservatives precisely what being a Christian entails – along the right’s narrowly-defined, hate-driven political agenda).

“You hear that liberals? When you mock Christianity, you’re being an intolerant bigot.”

Alexakis isn’t mocking Christianity; he’s reclaiming his religion (which is what the lyrics of the song are all about: disagreeing with fundamentalist right-wing interpretations of Christianity). The only mocking I can see is Spud mocking Alexakis’ statement of religious belief. Hypocrisy much?




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[info]masterspork
2008-12-02 07:15 pm UTC (link)
One thing is interesting to note is how many people that are in the military (that include my family) that are one WIC. It is to the point there there is a WIC office on Fort Benning post that does nothing but military families.

http://www.nutrition.gov/nal_display/index.php?info_center=11&tax_level=2&tax_subject=394&topic_id=1767&placement_default=0

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[info]sethgecko13
2008-12-08 02:17 pm UTC (link)
Wow. I saw something on Frontline or Bill Moyers Journal about how military families are having trouble making it (like when the breadwinner is called up to serve and has to leave a better-paying private sector job to earn the military pay; and then they end up getting hit by the Stop-Loss policy over and over) but I had no idea it was that bad. What the hell is wrong with this country?

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[info]mrbogey
2008-12-02 07:18 pm UTC (link)
'Does that mean that tithing doesn’t count as charitable giving?'

Since it's voluntary. Sure.

there are plenty of places in the bible where has been reasonably interpreted by many to say that Jesus supported wealth redistribution and opposed private enterprise and the accumulation of wealth. Perhaps the most famous is Mark 10:25:

“It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”


The function of that statement was not that anyone who has wealth is damned but that someone who accrues wealth while keeping others from accruing it is unlikely to enter heaven. The context explains it much better than the snippet posted.

It also reduces charity to solely private contributions (and ignores volunteerism, or any charitable involvement in terms of the political scene and advocating for the poor through the organs of government).

But to be fair, Stossel didn't count my well wishes as charity either. If you advocate charity at the end of a gun barrel...you're not talking about charity.

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[info]jaredchilders
2008-12-03 12:54 am UTC (link)
The function of that statement was not that anyone who has wealth is damned but that someone who accrues wealth while keeping others from accruing it is unlikely to enter heaven. The context explains it much better than the snippet posted.

What? Here's that whole passage. Show me what I'm missing:

17 As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. Good teacher, he asked, what must I do to inherit eternal life?
18 Why do you call me good? Jesus answered. No-one is good— except God alone.

19 You know the commandments: 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, do not defraud, honour your father and mother.'

20 Teacher, he declared, all these I have kept since I was a boy.

21 Jesus looked at him and loved him. One thing you lack, he said. Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.

22 At this the man's face fell. He went away sad, because he had great wealth.

23 Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!

24 The disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said again, Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God!

25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.

26 The disciples were even more amazed, and said to each other, Who then can be saved?

27 Jesus looked at them and said, With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God.

28 Peter said to him, We have left everything to follow you!

29 I tell you the truth, Jesus replied, no-one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel

30 will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age (homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields— and with them, persecutions) and in the age to come, eternal life.

31 But many who are first will be last, and the last first.

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[info]sethgecko13
2008-12-08 02:44 pm UTC (link)
Tithing in most churches is voluntary, but in some it's compulsory (and it used to be more compulsory than it is now - though there's still peer pressure to give and to do so at a certain level; they don't pass the collection plate in full view of the congregation by accident).

Fair enough - I'd say your summation is accurate, and I would say that it pretty roundly condemns the laissez-faire capitalist system the modern-day Republican party is so bent on achieving (in contrast to what 'Spud' was saying).

Interesting; so if I lobby congress for debt relief for developing nations, or to increase the compensation for military families, or if I go to work as a teacher in a failing low-income school district - that's not charitable?

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[info]perseusomega9
2008-12-05 07:46 pm UTC (link)
but this is predicated on the empirically-false notion conservatives have (Spud is a good example) that there are a sizeable proportion (if not a majority) of people on welfare who are there solely because they’re lazy and refuse to work, and not because they legitimately need help.

Not counting the children, simple observation in welfare offices would show this to be true.

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[info]sethgecko13
2008-12-08 03:17 pm UTC (link)
Children are two-thirds of the population on welfare, so that doesn't count a lot after them. Given the features of the population on welfare, I don't buy the argument that they're lazy given how many institutional barriers there are to employment for single mothers with little education (which restricts their ability to work to low-wage jobs that likely don't pay enough to cover their child-care costs - let alone enough to raise themselves out of poverty).

Worth a listen/read:

Katherine Newman on The Missing Class (Bill Moyers Journal)
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/11022007/profile2.html

Barbara Ehrenreich and Inequality in America (Bill Moyers Journal)
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/08032007/watch.html

Shipler, David K. (2005). The Working Poor: Invisible in America.

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